HID questions

[fastfour]

Just wondering what kit everyone has and if they like it or not. I was thinking Phillips just b/c of the brand name but a friend of mine says it has a yellowish tint to it. Oh, and hooray for you if your car comes standard with them, I'm looking for aftermarket kits.

Zach

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94 Civic Coupe/LS Hybrid
JRSC@6psi
Turbo Convert
Import Specialty Automotive (253) 473-2606

[JRSCGSR]

hey there, as far as I know, most kits people buy are not the Philips kit, but most of the kits out there are composed of Philips parts. Usually the ballast is Philips. The kit does not have a yellow tint to it as far as I know, at least all of the ones I've seen don't. On the kit taht I have, the light is very white with a tint of blue, but definitely not yellow at all. The color is not blue like the Mercedes/Lexus lights, or purple like the Audis, but they are definitely very nice looking. On my next car, one of the first purchases I will made will be an HID kit if the car doesn't come with it first.

Jon

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97 GSR, JRSC...of course, Walbro fuel pump, Kami 4-1, Tanabe G power Medallion, AEM Intake, 17" Advan RG's, JR BTC, VAFC

[Drives an LS]

In Bimmer a little over a year ago, they had an article on how to put together an HID kit from Ford parts for $400.

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FOR SALE! 1995 Integra LS. Blown or parts!.
http://patriot.net/~jeff/teg

[JRSCGSR]

Sounds like a lot of trouble to go through just to get HIDs. I bought my kit for 300 dollars brand new, but I doubt I could get that price again. I can get the newer purple HID kits for about 450 though. I can't see how 50 dollars could justify searching through junkyards to put together a used kit when you can get brand new ones for 50 dollars more, even less on Ebay, but they aren't the newer purple ones.

Jon

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97 GSR, JRSC...of course, Walbro fuel pump, Kami 4-1, Tanabe G power Medallion, AEM Intake, 17" Advan RG's, JR BTC, VAFC

[fastfour]

Are these "newer" kits reliable units though? I know Phillips is probably good to go but as soon as their kit comes out every mom and pop company will start putting out a kit as well and I'm afraid the quality would hit the toilet. Is it true in this case or are these other brands using Phillips pieces?

Zach

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94 Civic Coupe/LS Hybrid
JRSC@6psi
Turbo Convert
Import Specialty Automotive (253) 473-2606

[Rboosted717]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JRSCGSR:
I can get the newer purple HID kits for about 450 though. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What do you mean. All the HID's are the same. The housing of the headlight is what determines the color pattern of the bulb. However they do have a new style bulb which will appear to be more white/blue, however those bulbs alone are $400 for the pair. How do I know? I study HID's as a hobby and saw the new style bulbs being made in Japan. Oh yeah the new style bulbs will only work with factory OEM HID headlights and will not work with aftermarket kits like the Philips, etc... Side note, Bellof is offering a special bulb which is extreamly blue, however the glass is tinted blue which causes less light to shine through.

BTW- most all of the "name brand" companies are all the same. All HID's function at 35w when warmed up. Most all name brand companies use the same brand bulb because they are all the same.
If your looking for that lame purple/blue, etc... changing color like the Audi's and X5's, etc... you have to alter the light prism and projector dome to emit that varing color pattern. Ever hold a piece of crystal to the sun? Notice the color wave pattern? Then hold a normal piece of glass to the sun. Notice how the light is just light. Same concept applys to the HID setups. Its all about your projector, dome, leveling system, etc... on your car. Notice how the factory HID's projector dome has a slight grove cut into the dome of the projector? And notice how non HID projectors are just normal smooth domes.
Hope that helps.

Also, to answer on why get HID's...
Hid's are alot more then just color. The sodium gas (Xenon) that is arc'd by thousands of volts (20,000) during warm-up, it creates a light that will cut through fog, rain, etc... due to its relitave contents of candela.
See a hid bulb has the properties that can never be achieved by normal halogen bulbs due to the heat problems and lack of pure Xenon gases. The reason that the HID system can do it is because it doesn't produce any signifficent heat. Why? Its because during warm up DC volts (12v) are converted into a AC 20,000volt electricty using the ballest. Once the cold gas/sodium crystal is ignitied by the AC volt is purifies into a bright pure white are of light. When its fully heated up, the power drops to a minute 35w of power to keep the arc of light burning.
With a normal Halogen bulb, it uses a filament, which operates on a 12-volt, DC powered system. The DC power system charges the light filiment with watts of power. The higher the watt, the brighter the light is. However this turns into a huge problem. The high wattage of DC power creates a great amount of heat. That is why most aftermarket high-wattage halogen kits come with upgraded harness to with stand the heat. However the the headlight housing will after time be distroyed by that heat. Also as for the whiteness problems with normal halogen bulbs. See that filiment that burns is like a fire. Heat is hot and heat glows in the yellow color pattern, where as sodium/Xenon arc's glow in the white color pattern.
Here's a chart to better show the properties between the two:
Halogen
55 Wattage (W)
67,500 Candela (cd)
1,550 Lumen (Lm)
3,200 Temperature (K)
White Irradiation color
400 hours Life expectancy
Xenon HID
35 Wattage (W)
202,500 Candela (cd)
3,200 Lumen (Lm)
4,100 Temperature (K)
Pure white Irradiation color
2,000 hours Life expectancy

So after reading the above chart you will see how the Candela (cd) is so much greater on the hid's vs. the halogen bulbs. The candela (cd) is the the unit thats used in measuring headlight output; basically the higher the number is, the brighter the light is. So a 55w halogen bulb makes 67,500 candela vs. the 202,500 candela that a normal hid bulb creates. Even if you up the wattage of a halogen bulb, you will end up losing candela because it will add more kelvin due to the heat soaking up the candela.
Then if you look at the lumen (lm) you will see how the 55w halogen bulb creates only 1,550 lumens and the hid bulb makes 3,200 lumens. Lumens are the unit of luminous flux (amount of light). The higher the number is, the brighter the light is. Also due to heat soak from higher wattage halogen bulbs, you will end up losing lumens when raising the wattage of it.
Finally, lets look at the Kelvin (K). The 55w halogen bulb has 3,200 kalvin vs. the hid's 4,100 kalvin. The Kalvin is the thermodynamic temperature (colour temperature) used to measure the whiteness of the light output. The higher the number is the whiter the light is. In this case if you up the wattage of a halogen bulb, you will beat a hid bulb in kalvin, however the loss of candela and lumen makes it not as strong as the hid bulb. That is why when you said your halogen trick with removing the cap on the highbeam makes it look whiter, its in a way true. However that is only the relitave whitness. With the sharp patten the hid has along with unmatched candela and lumen, the hid will always pull out ahead in being the best light.



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Mike Marsey
'98 ITR #0717
Supercharged w/241whp & 166trq
For all your JRSC type R questions, go to:
http://www.geocities.com/superchargedtyper/
For for the best dynotuning check out:
[URL=http://www.dynospotracing.com[/URL]

[Drives an LS]

Umm.. actually, you're not going to a junkyard for a $400 HID kit.. You're going to the Ford Dealer

If you went to a junk yard.. I suspect it would be a fraction of that.

I'll try and dig up the magazine and scan the article

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FOR SALE! 1995 Integra LS. Blown or parts!.
http://patriot.net/~jeff/teg

[JRSCGSR]

Hey Mike, sounds like you're very knowledgeable in this area. The kit that I have is from many of the many companies coming out of Japan that just package parts together, but the wholesaler that I use to get these from stopped carrying them. They do have a new kit though that puts out a light pattern more like the audis, but doesn't change colors depending on your location in respect to the bulb like the Audis. I've personally seen these newer kits installed on a Civic and on a newer G20 and they seemed to work fine. I actually prefer my light pattern, but the quality of the newer kits is much better than the one that I have. On my kit, the harness connectors were manufacturered wrong as was the harness where the bulb pops in. I don't doubt any of the info you stated, just saying what I observed as I don't know a fraction as much as you do about HIDs...

Jon

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97 GSR, JRSC...of course, Walbro fuel pump, Kami 4-1, Tanabe G power Medallion, AEM Intake, 17" Advan RG's, JR BTC, VAFC

[fastfour]

Uh, Mike, sorry, could you go into a little more detail??? That was great. I knew some of it but you you really put it all together for me. Thanks man. You have the Phillips kit right? I assume you like it.

Finally, I have the projector headlights for my civic which uses an H3 bulb. I've seen a lot of guys on Honda tech say I will lose the goal of HID if I use a projector bulb. Should I put the stock headlight housings back in and use an H4?

Thanks,

Zach

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94 Civic Coupe/LS Hybrid
JRSC@6psi
Turbo Convert
Import Specialty Automotive (253) 473-2606

[Rboosted717]

With HID's I would highly recommend using projector housings. By using a projector you will get that amazing sharp cutoff beam as you drive. Whats cool about that is, all the light intensity of the HID's light projection is focused on a projected narrow path that the projectors will emit. Ify ou use normal non projector/fixture headlights then the HID's will shoot everywhere. IMO, that kinda sucks because all the intensity of the HID is scattered all over the road. However this shouldn't really be that be because many benz's come like this as well as the first gen prosche's with HID's. However both of those companies probally realized that the projectors are indeed better, which is why they both now adapted projectors on their headlights.
With my car I use a kit that I bought from a generic company that makes the units for all the manufactors. Places like Audi, Acura, Prosche, benz, etc.., all contract out have have their HID's made by various firms. Anyway so I used this kit for awhile. Then after some research I found out about this company in Italy that makes these HID bulbs for some Euro cars and prototype cars in Europe. These bulbs use a new sodium crystal that warms up a lot faster and inturn emits a sharper beam that seemed to work really well with my setup. When I compaired them to my friends R who has the OEM JDM spec HID's for his JDM front my lights from distance appeared to have a slight purple tint to them where as his were more blue/white. Since we both have JDM fronts and both have HID's and both have similiar JDM housings for the headlights, it was a great chance to compaire the two. The only differences was that he had the OEM spec HID headlight housings that use a smaller projector and are made for HID's.
Anyway so when I was in Japan I picked up these new style HID's that use a totally difference sodium gas, and use a different internal structure inside. When I saw these bulbs in testing at the facility they made normal OEM spec lights look yellow. These new bulbs were crazy. Instead of going bright white to calm white during warmup, these bulbs went from normal white to a bright white/blue during warm up and stayed that way. Also these bulbs had no glass tiniting at all and were just as bright or brighter then the OEM spec bulbs. Anyway so I convinced the company to give me a set for my setup sicne I knew so much about them etc... Anyway to make these even better, I bought a set of OEM JDM spec HID housings without the HID's and ballest. This setup was now perfect. So I hooked them all up and they work great. With the OEM spec HID headlights I now get this crazy projection that I never got with the other normal headlights and HID's. My headlights are crazy now. When I pull up to any other car with HID's mine just over shoot them and make theirs look dim! hahahahaha
Anyway I got to run, CMI awaits me! ahahaha

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Mike Marsey
'98 ITR #0717
Supercharged w/241whp & 166trq
For all your JRSC type R questions, go to:
http://www.geocities.com/superchargedtyper/
For for the best dynotuning check out:
[URL=http://www.dynospotracing.com[/URL]